DMR Gutters Downspout Comparison Page

Why kind of downspouts are best for a gutter system you ask?

Looks:
Function is very important of course, and in most cases more advantage can be gained from just replacing the downspouts with a more functional system than getting new gutters. But face it; if it does not look good, that's still a major problem. Most of us would love to see our house designed with no downspouts at all, if that were possible. Who wants to look at the external plumbing on their house? We have to accept it as a necessary evil. We have prepared this web page to show you many of the options available. Although, several of these are no good, so I don't offer them as an option with my installations. Below this is an example of our custom fit downspout installation in copper, but the same can be had in aluminum.

Terminologies:
Here is a breakdown of the terms used for downspout parts to refer to. They are only examples of the corrugated rectangular downspout with rounded corners and curved connecting elbows, since these are the only types of parts we will use in painted aluminum or copper. The second photo shows a larger 3x4 No-clog outlet reduced down to a standard 2x3 downspout for improved function. You can click on these photos to get a better look.

Here's a smaller Pipe-cleat bracket on the left we use to use for downspout attachment prior to 2006, but now we use this larger Pipe-cleat on the right that's made for a 3x4 DS, but as you can see it can be used on a 2x3 DS just fine. It is also made with a thicker metal and is attached w/6 rivets, in stead of just 2.

Hidden Downspouts:
I don't happen to have pictures of this type, but I've seen cases where the downspouts were built inside the wall of the house, so all you see is the upper part of the downspout returning to the siding and going through the siding or bricks up high. I saw one house built with a series of stainless steel trays up high jetting out from the wall extending out to the gutter to catch the rain water under each outlet to divert the rain water back into the wall and funneling into the plastic sewer pipes directly. This does not allow for an accessible debris strainer to help keep that natural debris from jamming up the storm drain pipes. If they were to back-up (which commonly happens), this would overflow inside the wall and cause some serious damage to your house. It would be very costly to open up the wall from inside or outside to unclog it, but by the time you figure out what the problem is the damage is already very serious.

Conclusion: This is the most inconspicuous, but a terrible idea for any long term solution! I would refuse to install this kind of rain management system.

Rain-chains as Downspouts:

In areas where it does not rain much rain chains seem to be much more common place. Large steel chains are normally used to guide the water to the ground onto a pile of rocks or large grate that feeds down into a French drain or proper storm drain.

In the situation in these photos there was no good way to have mounted a downspout on the side of the house, with all the large windows of our dining room. This large steel chain may cost even more than a copper downspouts, but many people feel it looks classy, not realizing how poorly it will work or look years later, turning rusty and covered in slimy mildew.

Even considering the nice earthy look, they don't really work well. The chain going up through the outlet acts as a obstruction and quickly dams up the gutters, as seen in these photos. Even if they are clean frequently, much of the water still misses the chain all together and splatters on the rocks below, as seen in just a light pour in the photo below right.

Worst of all is how it makes the chain slimy and nasty with fungus, which can be a health hazard, especially with children who think it's a fun rope swing and wind-up yank the gutters down onto their little heads. We do sell some large link decorative copper chains that will not mildew, but they still will not channel much of the rain water.

Example of a chain problem:
We were asked by our former Mayor, Bud Clark, to evaluate a solution to the work he did on his two story house in NW Portland near Downtown, where he had installed chains to replace his downspouts. He realized how much of the water did not follow the chain. In order to catch most of that rain water he cut the chain about 3 'shorter so he could attached 5 gallon plastic buckets on the bottom of the chain. They looked terrible full of gross stagnate water. They had to be suspended off the ground, since wind on the chain would push the buckets sideways and make noise dragging them from side to side. The bucket would fill and then over flow to dribble down the sides. That standing water would become green and murky before the water would evaporate out. I'm sure you can imagine how this looked, but can you imagine how heavy this was tugging down on the floor of the gutter?

Even without these catch buckets, these chains are a very heavy addition to the gutter and most gutters are not installed that well to handle that extra weight. Even with the hidden hanger with a pair of stainless steel screws we use to install gutter with, it is still too much weight on the gutter. Now imagine how heavy this would become when caked with ice in the winter time.

Conclusion: Functionally rain-chains are a terrible idea any way you slice it! They are expensive, a health risk, and do not work as you would imagine, so I refuse to install them at any cost.

click the play button to see this in action in a heavy downpour.

Rain-cups as Downspouts:

These copper rain-funnels will keep most of the water in a controlled fall with a lot less splattering than chains shown above. Being made of 32oz solid copper and brass wire they will not mildew like steel or plastic chains. They look rather charming and deter children from swinging on them, since there is nothing good for them to grab. Actual cups would seem like a good idea to slow down the water, but they would have dirty standing water that could become quite nasty and be a mosquito breeding ground, so these funnels have proven to be most trouble free of their kind.

We resell several different rust free designs that range from $15 a foot for the 3" wide, or $30 per foot for the fancier designs with a cute leaderhead, like the Tea Pot over Tea Cups set, or the Watering Can over Flowers set for $180. They can even be used to focus the rain water into a standard 4" sewer pipe instead of a large storm drain.

There's also different half round design with a flat back made for mounting separately on a house's siding where there is no eaves or a set of downspout elbows above it to deliver the rain water back to the siding. Contact us for more details and alternatives, because we are not limited to those few options, since I also specialize in fabricating original designs. See our http://copper-by-design.com web site for more details for custom designs made to order.

The one pictured here is the Crocus Raincup design and costs only $15 per foot installed and come in 6' lengths that can be streached out with 4 gauge copper wire S hooks. You can see more design ideas at the Good Directions wholesale web site. Here's a couple still shots I took in action. You can click on the photos here to see them larger with more detail.

Conclusion: Raincups look real cute, but are a little pricy compared to aluminum DS. They can work well as long as you have sewer drain system directly under them to carry the water away from your foundation and not kill your plant fro excess watering.

This shows one style of wall mount rain-cups I've made with a 20oz copper back splash plate and 32oz copper funnels mounted with stainless steel screws:

Plastic Downspouts:
The plastic gutter parts are a waste of money, since even though they will not rust; they are prone to UV damage from the Sun, Causing them to have a shorter life-span than steel gutter parts. Just like the vinyl siding we are seeing fail far short of their promises, these are a very poor value. Below are photos I took just before replacement. The debris strainer would clog quickly, but when it worked as it was designed to, it would dump this junk on the ground in a nasty pile. Most of the time it would make the rain water splash out onto the ground there instead. If you happened to be walking under it when it released, you are bound to get a nasty surprise. These clean-outs were too high to access for manual removal of this blockage without a ladder. Far from user friendly. You are just as well off with a simple strainer screen up inside the gutter.

In general they are: expensive, Limited colors, look bad with all the external support brackets, do not work well, highly prone to leaks, too weak to support a ladder against them, become dislocated easily, and will not last more than a decade or so.

Conclusion: Very poor choice, and we refuse to install them at any cost.

Round Downspouts:
They can function OK if they are installed well, but they have numerous problem issues to the extent that I refuse to install them as well. They are quaint looking, but there are several good reasons they were made obsolete half a century ago. It is only a matter of ignorance to these issues that has they have begun to bring them back into fashion, as a deluxe feature no less, since they are so expensive!

Back when they first came out with these, they had not developed a more complex roll forming machine to make the corrugated downspouts yet, that we are more familiar with today. The corrugation helps to strengthen this thin sheet metal used for most all types of downspouts. It would be nice to have thicker metal used for downspouts, like with the building codes that govern the thickness of gutters. It is not even a matter of cost. It is more about the seam that needs to be folded and sealed on the back side of the downspouts. If the sheet metal was thicker, it would be that much harder to form this seam and not crack the sheet metal from over bending it.

Here are some of the problem issues with round downspouts:

(a) Round downspouts look too much like external plumbing. Gutters and downspouts should be decorative or inconspicuous.
(b) Round downspouts stick out from the house 50% more than a rectangular downspout that handles the same volume of water.
(c) Round downspouts are made with very thin sheet-metal that is prone to easily dent. And when they do, they show the dents like a sore thumb. Much like looking at a dented up trumpet or tuba.
(d) Round downspouts are tricky and hard to install, and are not very stable with regards to secure mounting on your house. They are hard to check the vertical alignment with a level, or assemble the elbows straight. They are more difficult to crimp the end that needs to fit into the other pipe. Without 3 rivets for each connection, the connections are not stable.
(e) We have had trouble with the back seam sliding and twisting the downspout, causing some odd warping.

Conclusion: Expensive, tacky looking, and shows dents badly. Very poor choice, and we refuse to install them at any cost.

The 1.75"x 2.75" Smooth Plain Square Downspouts:
These downspouts are most often used, given their low cost. They are sold to clients as a simple and less conspicuous look, and often painted the same color as the house siding to hide them all the more, where gutters were normally considered as trim and painted that trim color. To keep them as cheap as possible, at least 99% of these downspouts we have run across were made of steel and would rust out even sooner than the steel gutters, because of the wet mildew and debris trapped inside them to decompose and not let water pass. There is a simple test: if a magnet will stick to your gutter parts, they are only cheap steel.

Functionally these are the worst. The local supplier does sell curved elbows for these smaller cheap downspouts, but the contractors very rarely buy them for their clients, even on the fancy show homes for the Street of Dreams. They even did this with the copper gutters we saw the last few years; 2002, 03, 04? We could not believe our eyes. They will be sure to fail within the first couple years.

Even worse is when they cut the outlet in through the back side of the gutter, as shown in the picture to the right. This may make the downspouts look the most inconspicuous, but the failure rate is much higher. We have had lots of jobs to only replace these inferior downspouts.

Conclusion: Fairly inconspicuous looking, cheap, but a terrible choice, as they are noisy and prone to jam up and rust out swiftly! Because of this, we refuse to install them at any cost

3"x 4" Reduced Down to 2"x 3" Corrugated Aluminum Downspouts w/Rouned Corners & Curved Elbows:
This has shown to be the best for looks and function available. The corrugation not only adds to strength, but also adds a more regal decorative look. With the soft rounded edges, they seems much more pleasing to the eye, as well as the fingers. These downspouts are about 125% larger than the plain square downspouts described just above, since we can fit them inside of the 2"x 3" corrugated downspout pipes with room to spare. This allows for a larger outlet which helps greatly to keep gutters functioning, but with the larger 3"x 4" elbows at the top allows for a 250% increase in the size of the outlet. Greatly reducing the chance of there becoming a natural blockage.

With the larger 3"x 4" No-clog option elbow at the top, this allows us to cut a much larger outlet. We then use a reducer to bring it down to a standard 2"x 3" downspout to help minimizing the appearance as well as the cost. In cases where there is little to no eaves, we will mount the reducer right under the gutter it's self.

In a good 8 years of doing this, we have found there to be no advantage to the industrial size downspout all the way down to the ground. LeafGuard ® hinges their warranty on those industrial size downspout, and installs them as the whole downspout only so they are able to charge the customer 3 times the price for the downspouts as well. They still need to use the reducer at the ground level to fit into the 3" round sewer pipes.

Even with just the standard 2"x 3" downspout, you are still much better off.

We attach our downspouts using thick aluminum or copper decorative pipe cleats that are riveted onto the back of the downspout before installation. Then are screwed onto the siding with stainless steel #2 Philips screws. This make removal much easier and risk a lot less chance of damage.

Here are photos of the pipe cleat wall mount bracket and the Leaf-catchers we make

Conclusion: Best choice and value.

Functional Gutters and Downspouts:
There is little reason to have downspouts, or even gutters if they will not continue to function without continual maintenance 4 to 6 times a year, since most Homeowners will not bother to maintain their gutter system as needed. Even if you do not like the looks of the corrugated downspouts as shown above, the mess other failed downspouts will cause will be far worse than the looks of these more functional downspouts, and save thousands of dollars and headaches over the next few decades.

Cost saving Over the Long Run:
The safety issue for whom ever will be going up and down the ladder several hundred times a decade to clean out your gutters will save a great deal more than the most costly copper gutter system, as one accident would most likely be more costly. The best reason is the money you will save on premature roofing and gutter repair from all the extra traffic on your roof and banging ladders against the gutters several hundred times a decade, in order to access gutters that need constant service. That alone can cost you much more than the most expensive gutter leaf-protection products out there. The less need to access your roof the better.

Some of Our Extraordinary Custom Downspout Work

Super-size Basin Catcher:

This is a ultimate in a no-clog outlet, but it is not an option we normally include in our bids, unless specifically asked for. This was the finished product from the wishes of a customer in West Linn Oregon. The customer had a 55 foot gutter, with a lot of pine trees above the roof. He was fed up with the constant grief he would get from debris filling the gutters. He requested to have the gutter split in half and dump into a basin of some sort.

Knowing what he had described would look terrible, and would not give us something to attach the basin to, we came up with this one piece unit that is also part of the gutter it's self. We covered the top of the basin under the eaves with a screening to keep the critters out, but we left it openable in the case it ever needed clearing out.

It then funnels down into a 3"x 4" downspout pipe, which is twice the size of a normal downspout. It cost an extra $450 instead of only $40 like the over size outlets we normally install, so it may not be for every one, and does look a bit extreme.

Corner Catcher:

This is a custom aluminum catcher basin I made back in 1996. I designed it to catch the rain water from a valley like this. It was made from a straight 3' 10" gutter with each end mitered, instead of just slapping on a pair of flat end-caps. It has a 3.5" x 4.5" funnel mounted in the bottom as the outlet, then reducing into a standard 2"x 3" downspout going straight down the corner of the house.

The cost for this is calculated from the basic cost of the gutter needed to make this: $13.42, + the cost of mitering corner and mitered ends = $120 + $50 for the funnel below = $183.42 total installed. I felt it best to leave it screen free in this case, as the amount of debris would only cover over the screen and cause the rain water to cascade over the gutter.

Better Headroom Tray:

This was the finished custom product for the downspout feature for a gutter over the back deck on a house in Southwest Portland Oregon. As you can see from the glass sliding door and windows how the gutter over the back deck was actually lower and a regular downspout parts would have been less than 5' above the deck back at the wall. I came up with this one piece unit to keep the rain water transition up as high as possible, since the headroom clearance was at a minimum. I designed it open at the top for access, since there is so little slope and may be at high risk of debris constrictions.

It then drops into a custom 3.5"x 4.5" downspout reducer that funnels into a standard 2" x 3" downspout. the picture below shows just one side of the gutter over lapping into the custom tray.

We charged about $150 extra for this custom scuppers, instead of a normal downspout charge, but is these cases it is a huge advantage over a normal gutter system.

Mini Scupper:

This is a custom aluminum catcher basin to catch the rain water from a narrow valley. It was made from a short straight gutter, with each end mitered, instead of just slapping on a pair of end-caps. We flattened the back side to make the bottom a bit wider and made a new higher back side. It has a 3.5" x 4.5" funnel mounted in the bottom as the outlet, reducing into a standard size downspout. There is a double 'A' offset elbow right under it to divert the rain water back to the downspout on the siding.

We didn't need to go to this trouble to miter the ends, but it just makes it look a little nicer, without going to too much trouble like the scuppers we custom make.

Bookmark links to the No-clog options we offer
Deluxe Hinged Leaf Screens	Larger No-clog Outlet	Leaf-catchers
**Here is the low-maintenance No-clog options that will give you a pretty much trouble free gutter system, and the DMR Gutters 25 year no-clog warranty (see our warranty web page for those details)**