Frequently Asked Questions about Gutters Page #3 of 3

Updated 4 / 24 / 11

I believe that no matter how good a gutter cover could possibly work it should not cost more than the gutter. I price leaf screens at $1.50 less per foot than the aluminum gutter installed. I include them on each itemized bid. Few clients don't have me include these screens.  This screen (seen below) is a lot sturdier than the other screens and works better.  They clip onto the outer lip of the gutter and rest under the bottom row of shingles.  They come in 4 feet wide sections and allow to easily see down into the gutter for blockages.

One very important detail you need to keep in mind is how the holes need to be larger than window screen. Any thing smaller and it is not practical. It becomes covered with debris and the rain water will cascade over the outer edge of the gutter. A clog free gutter is wonderful, but quite pointless if the cover does not allow water to pass through. That's why the Leaf Guard ®'s type of gutter cover system does not work, as well as many other different variations of that concept. These screens have less than half the restriction than plastic screens (as seen here below), and over 10 times the ability to pass water than a Leaf Guard ® type hood.

These screens will keep out around 90% of normal leafy debris, and about half the pine needles. That's wy the larger No-clog outlets are so important.  The main benefit is how they keep out most leaves, pinecones, and braches that will clog up a gutter quickly, so the gutter has a chance to continue to function, and you'll not need to get up on the roof in the worst weather; when you finally notice you have a problem. 

This helps make it a low maintenance system, but there will still be some pine needles in, roof sand, and moss growing inside the gutters.  There is no perfect solution to gutter maintenance, but what little gets through the screen should be able to flush down the 2X larger outlet we recommend in the heaviest down-pour.  That is where the larger no-clog outlets and Leaf-catchers come in to play to solve the rest of this issue in allowing the whole gutter system to remain functional. With only screens added my clients report they've only need to maintain the gutters a fourth as often.

I go more in detail into this issue on our No-Clog Comparison web page.

Again, I go more into this issue on our No-Clog Comparison web page.

This image shows an extra large 3"x 4" industrial size downspout elbow that can be used to cut a larger hole in the floor of the gutter.  This larger outlet allows for what little debris that may get through the screen to make the transition into the downspout where it's caught by the Leaf-catcher near the ground level, which is much easier to access. The Leaf Guard ®'s 'never clog gutters' system warranty hinges on these same larger downspouts.  The big problem with their aluminum gutters is they cost a lot more than aluminum DMR Gutters and as much as my copper gutters. They also do not use the high quality parts and installation I do.  Also, Leaf Guard gutters do not work well.  Leaf Guard ® may guaranty that their gutters will not clog, but they will not guaranty that their gutters will continue to accept rain-water. That's their 'Catch 22'.

There are dozens of copy add-ons to mimic Leaf Guard's system, but they are also very costly, and fail just as quickly. It is a clever concept, and in a perfectly debris free situation, they will work flawlessly, but in that's the case you'd have no need for a gutter cover at all!  There is no perfect solution, but clearly screens are still the better solution and cost a fraction of those other gimmicks.  It just takes a more rigid set of screens, and with the screens I install, they are rigid enough to not cave into the gutter like other flimsy screens do.

Another method of building a no clog gutter outlet is to install a funnel into the floor of the gutter. These funnels are normally used to join two downspouts into one, but this allows me to cut a very large hole in the floor of the gutter, allowing the debris just tip into the downspout. The only problem is that it drops the first elbow a foot lower and looks odd.

I try not to seem like I push the sale of copper gutters, since it is not like they will hold up that much better or last longer than aluminum gutters for the added cost, but I've had around half my clients these days ask for copper. There are certain long-term and short-term advantages to copper, as long as they are well installed.  Which is a very important detail that you will not get from other Gutter Contractors at any price. What good is using a life-time metal like copper if it pulls loose from your house within a decade? I saw copper gutters installed on one of the Street Of Dreams houses that were very poorly installed with large copper nails and had the worst downspouts made in copper as well. I could hardly believe my eyes. what a waste of good metal. I've had to replace plenty of aluminum gutters that were only a few years old because they were that poorly installed.

Just the standard 16oz copper typically used for gutters and roof flashing is a little sturdier than aluminum, but not by much. With copper you also have the option to get a thicker 20oz copper I usually use, but most of the other Gutter Contractors will not give you that option. My supplier reports I am the only Gutter Contractors who regularly buy the 20oz copper for gutters. Aluminum or steel do not have an option here locally for a thicker metal for added strength.

The main reason to get copper gutters though is the simple fact that you will not need to deal with the painting issue again and they will not mildew like any painted surface or even stainless steel.  I would say a little over half my copper gutter clients have opted for the thicker 20oz copper gutters, since they are already looking to get better than standard gutters. Especially when the thinner copper only saves them 20%. As long as they are installed well they are a very good short-term value as well given the fact that the resale value of the house is usually greater than the cost difference, so it could be profitable to the sale of your house, depending on the market and your area of course. Most people understand the value of copper and they would imagine you've attended to all the details of your house remodel with the same level of care.

Copper Value:
Copper costs us contractors 5 to 6 times as much as painted aluminum sheet metal.  Although your end cost should be only about double, since there is not much more labor or business expenses involved, which as we all should know is 2/3 the cost of any construction project.  One of the main reason people get copper gutters for their house is for the bragging rights. It has been evident to me that theft of copper gutters is more a myth than a real concern. Thieves are too lazy to get up on ladders and remove gutters. At least the way I install them 8X building code strength. They just passed a law where metal recyclers now have to mail a check to scrappers of non-ferrous metals, so it is now that much harder for them to sell stolen copper or even aluminum.

Copper Patina:
I think they look pretty neat before they tarnish, but there is no good way to keep them from tarnishing at a reasonable cost.  This is a moot point when most clients I've talked to who can afford copper gutters seem to prefer the patina look of copper, and in some cases they've asked if I could give the new gutters an acid wash to accelerate that patina effect. I try to dissuade them, since copper exposed to the elements will naturally turn brown within a few months and darken from there over time, so it's hardly worth the added cost. This shows the difference after just a year:

Make Sure They are Well Installed (or it is a waste of very expensive metal):
This point is a very important issue if you are considering copper gutters. Another detail is the wider 48oz solid copper hidden hangers I use with a pair of #12 stainless steel screws placed only 2' apart. They will most likely use a gutter spike, or a smaller soft brass hanger with a smaller single screw spaced 4' apart. I do not use any solder with the installations I do, as it is not well advised to have an open flame torch next to your wood structure. Over half a century back that was the best way to seal copper and steel gutters before they had the advanced caulks we have today. The caulk I use is 3X the cost of what most Gutter Contractors use. It is important they use a good caulk if it is to last. They can make a continuous gutter, but there is no way to make a continuous corner or even end-cap. How it is seal makes all the difference. I also use better rivets with solid brass mandrels and stainless screws with my installations. Another aspect that will most likely be overlooked with most any other Gutter Contractor. You must insist they use better parts and double check their work testing the metal parts with a magnet as they do the work to make sure they are doing what they have promised. Good quality SS screws will not attract a magnet at all. Even if you are not local to my area I can still provide you with right parts if they claim they cannot get the type of parts I use.

Yeah, I think I've got that covered too. You'll be hard pressed to find a Gutter Contractor who is as qualified to do the custom work I've done. I'll usually suggest many improvements and other options to consider that you may not have considered. Click on the photos below to see the link page to see the different sort of custom work I've done. I'm happy to spend the extra time to brain-storm new solutions to your needs.

No, I don't have a large crew to help me with my scheduled workload and still be able to maintain my high standards.  My reputation would then hinge on their workmanship and professionalism. It seems my intolerance for incompetence is too great to let my reputation slip for a higher production volume.  I'm a very hands-on guy, so you may have to wait months for me to be able to get to your project. Many people seem to feel that a small business cannot survive if it does not grow at a substantial rate, but it seems to me when a business graduates to a certain point it becomes like a run-away train that will end in a fiery crash?  When a business grows like this the owner has a huge career change from a hands on creator to a frustrated manager of people.

I'd like to imagine you'll see this as one of my best advantages, how you know you've met the man who'll be very involved in the installation and is well worth the wait to get in my cue of scheduled work, but that of course is your call.

We go into this issue in more detail on our Warranty web page.

The Construction Contractor's Board (CCB) in Salem Oregon requires all Contractors to provide at least 1 year labor warranty, so that's what most Contractors will provide if they have the integrity to stand by their work at all. I see this as more as a minimal requirement than as a recommendation. I offer a minimum 10-year installation warranty, which is upgradeable to a 15-year warranty with screens added at the time of installation.  A 15-year no-clog warranty with the 2X larger No-clog outlets with those screens. I'd happily offer a longer warranty, but will I realistically be climbing up on ladders past 65 years of age? I pride myself to not insult your intelligence and only offer a realistic claim.

Most of our clients choose the full package deal. At least 9 out of 10.

What does it take for you to write us up a bid for new gutters, or other work?

I can usually come out to write up a quote within a day or two. It usually takes me 15 to 20 minutes to chart and bid a gutter replacement for a typical house.  I can pretty much get all the rough measurements I will need from the ground with my measuring wheel.  I'll need to over estimate the footage slightly, so I will be sure to have enough materials for the job, but as far as I know I'm the only Contractor of any type who will reprice a job down to only reflect what materials remained on their house, as it states in the lower left corner of the bid sheet.

I'd like to believe I'm not guilty of apply pressure to my clients either way, but if you are interested in a completely no-pressure bid you can do for yourself; see our Latest News web page for details and a copy of my bid sheet. It's not nearly as hard as you might think.

My current schedule is listed on our Latest News web page, where it may show I'm booked several moths out already, but I would imagine any Contractor worth a darn is going to be booked a ways out. That is rather suspect if a Gutter Contractor can rush right out to replace your gutters in a hurry. I'd like to believe I'm well worth the wait, but that's your call, but be prepared to call on me a few years later to replace those lousy gutters. It has happened several times that I know of.

If we make a deal to replace your gutters I'll usually come back out to remove the gutters when I'm ready to complete your house.  I get the exact measurements at that time.  If they are not over 40 feet long I'll just custom process the parts to fit your house in my work shop.  I'll then drive them out to your place to install them.  This way there in less construction obstruction and noise at your place.  Clients seem to like this feature a lot.

It has been a part of our integrity for the last 18 years, since 1992.  I have given all our clients an honest discounted price from what was listed on the original bid.  When I finish with each gutter job I'll of course have all the exact measurements of the parts I used.  I recalculate the measurements for the final price to only be the cost of the parts that remained on your house.

Unless you ask me to do some extra work, or we agree on some unforeseen work needed to complete the job, then the final price is most always less than the original bid, but not more. Many times the cost was still less after I had to do some extra unexpected work.  That way you never have to pay for imaginary parts of an over inflated bid, or just sloppy measurements.  For that matter you won’t even have to pay for any cut off waste that was necessary for the job.

In our travels we have often heard how other Gutter Contractors claim a lower price per foot for their gutters, but for some reason, their bids have been several hundreds of dollars more than mine?  This can be nothing other than shady business practices by inflating the measurements of the gutter parts needed in the bid to make up the difference of what they really want to do the job. Be careful not to become a victim of this deception.

I am one of the few Gutter Contractors in the Country who offers a parts delivery service of the better professional quality parts I use and encourages DIY enthusiasts with a list of recommended tools and instructions you'll find. Here's the most current installation instruction w/list of recommended tools. Just click on the images below for a PDF file you can read and print out that was last updated 4/11:

For prices go to: http://dmr-gutters.com/del.htm#Gutters

To read more about the design and function of the Leaf-catchers we make see:
http://dmr-gutters.com/opt.htm#catchers